Oh, Please!
Interview with Lindsey Kontovich | vol. 006
Welcome to Oh, Please!—where reformed (or at least reforming) people-pleasers spill the tea on learning to live their own lives without apologizing for breathing. Breaking the habit of putting everyone else first is no joke, and I’m eternally grateful to these brave souls for sharing their journey back to sanity right here at DPP. Trust me, you don’t want to miss this series—subscribe and cheer on these heroes as they finally learn to say “no” without a panic attack!
“If you are curious about therapy, GO! Sure, it’s scary to pick out the therapist (sometimes the websites feel like dating apps), pay the money and spill your guts”
-Lindsey Kontovich
We’re back with the lastest author interview with fellow Substacker,
who writes, “The Messy Therapist”.I’m excited to share her words of wisdom with you all here today and connect you to her great body of resources and work. Lindsey has been a kind and supportive friend to me here on the Stack for quite some time- she was the winner of My Guided Emotional Intelligence Journal from the first-ever giveaway I held on this platform. Thanks for being such a long-standing ally and author of your own great work, LK!
About her:
Lindsey is a full-time mental health therapist (and sometimes trauma-informed yoga teacher) specializing in trauma, anxiety, and depression, and last year she audaciously started a new private practice named Embodied Healing Collective with a colleague. She is a mom to two empathetic and spirited kids, ages 11 and 6, with her ultra trail-loving husband of over 13 years. Lindsey loves sharing about mental health struggles in a personable and accessible way in her newsletter, The Messy Therapist. She is an actively recovering people-pleaser who wants everyone to find peace and contentment in this life in whatever way makes sense for them.
Welcome to DPP, Lindsey! Can you please share when you realized your "yes reflex" was becoming a problem? Where were you, and what was the incident that made you think, “Wait…why am I baking 100 cupcakes for Karen's third cousin's cat’s birthday?”
I was at work about to schedule a meeting outside of my regular office hours because I was worried I would disappoint the person by not being able to schedule a sooner appointment. If I said yes, I would have missed time with my kids and put more responsibility on my husband with after school care. I thought “I’m about to cross my own boundaries for the sake of what? Money? Disappointing them?” Reading this quote from Atomic Habits’ author, James Clear hit me hard: ‘‘20 years from now, the only people who will remember that you worked late are your kids.” It stopped me in my tracks and it has now become a subtle mantra in the back of my head when I’m making my work schedule. Also, I realize in times like these that I often “rob peter to pay paul” if you will. I steal time from my kids to pay for time at work for example, or I rob time from myself to pay the price of not disappointing others - a very slippery slope.
Do you have any Mentors/Gurus/Greek Philosophers who have supported you on your journey? Tell us about them.
My clients are often my guides/mentors in this journey because as I support them in their journey of ‘becoming’ I am reminded how to do it, too. My husband is an excellent model of staying true to yourself and your values. He is authentically himself and knows what he wants and how he wants to spend his time, even if others may not understand (i.e. training to run 100 mile races each year). Luckily, he’s available at all times to talk me down from the ledge when I fear I’ve disappointed someone when I’ve asserted my needs. I can’t remember where I saw this but I remember reading that people pleasing can sometimes be dishonest and harmful to relationships since it is often not a true reflection of my values and authentic self and my wants. The main character from the crazy and insane book “All Fours” by Miranda July says “I was so good at knowing what I wanted and then choosing something else at the very last second.” Sums up my people pleasing!
How did it feel the first time you said ‘no’ and didn’t follow it up with an apology? Was it like discovering a superpower, or did it make you want to hide under a blanket?
It was a both/and experience - meaning that it felt both liberating and terrifying. When I am in “people pleaser” mode, I notice the pit in my stomach light up and I feel disconnected to myself. When I say no, I notice that I feel more empowered and connected to myself. I feel lit up but in a much softer way.
When you feel yourself slipping back into people-pleasing tendencies, what do you do to reset, besides searching Zillow for the cheapest deserted island?
A trip to a faraway tropical island always sounds better than having to sit in the discomfort of saying no or asserting my needs and boundaries. I remind myself that it is okay to change my mind or renegotiate if I have said yes to a friend date or agreed to do something extra at work and it doesn’t feel right. I let myself take time to decide if I chose it because it was what felt right in the moment or if it was coming from a protective place to avoid disappointing the other person. Looking at the backslide with compassionate eyes is really important for me as I practice shifting out of these tendencies. I have done a lot of parts work in therapy to help me understand my need to people please. I am able to offer myself alot more compassion knowing that my people pleasing is not meant to harm but to protect from feeling as though I am not enough when I perceive that I have disappointed someone or prioritized my needs over theirs.
Since you stopped being a professional “yes-person,” what’s been your biggest self-care indulgence (and how much do you love it)?
I love knowing that I can opt out of things. I get to decide how I use and prioritize my time - not others. If I don’t value eating at the new expensive restaurant or participating in the group text or spending a million dollars on a birthday trip for a friend, then I don’t have to. I can set and keep boundaries with my work schedule, budget, and needs which allows for more time to take care of myself through writing, reading, being with my peeps, and moving my body.
If you could give one piece of advice to fellow recovering people pleasers, what would it be (besides faking bad cell reception)?
Shifting out of people pleasing is a daily practice. It may be uncomfortable and feel like a struggle for…awhile. The more you get to know this part of yourself and the “why” behind it and create awareness around the patterns (I.e. who, what, when you tend to people please), the more you’ll be connected to yourself, have self-trust, and know that your time and your life are your own.
RAPID FIRE ROUND
Kryptonite. What (or who) is yours when it comes to pleasing?
I still struggle with disappointing and letting most anyone down. While it has become easier overtime, there is still a part of me that wants to be seen as good. I would say that my family and a few friends still are my people pleasing kryptonite.
Do you have a favorite Book or TV Show/Film?
My favorite book of all time is Eat, Pray, Love by the incomparable Elizabeth Gilbert. I read it at a time when I was a bit lost and disoriented about who I was and wanted to become. Her book showed me the language of learning about and knowing myself and introduced me to the beauty and stillness of yoga and meditation. I learned in the book that I am allowed to change my minds about things and disappoint others with my choices and gasp! …everyone lives and is okay.
Is there anything that you WISHED I ask you, but didn't, that you would like to share here? Final words, advice, questions, comments, concerns? Anything goes.
If you are curious about therapy, GO! Sure, it’s scary to pick out the therapist (sometimes the websites feel like dating apps), pay the money and spill your guts, but the relationship you begin to create with yourself and your therapist can be one of great fulfillment and learning. Also, change therapists if they aren’t a great fit. It’s your time and money so make it worth it. Also, I am a total Swiftie (and quote her often during therapy sessions) and running alone on the trails for many miles is my drug.I don’t have to people please anyone out there.
Where can we find you and your work from here?
I write a weekly-ish newsletter at and love to share personal essays, resources, and ways to create a more peaceful and content life.
Thank you for sharing yourself with us here at DPP, Lindsey! Readers, please be sure to check her work out here on Substack, and have an interest in therapy (and may I say, I hope if you are here, and recovering from pleasing, you are interested in therapy 🤣).
Wishing you a weekend with pockets of rest and glimmers of joy,
K. Alexandra
🐣 P.S. RECOVERING PEOPLE-PLEASERS: If you would like to be interviewed I would LOVE to have you! Please submit your contact information (safely) here: Interview Me! 🐞
P.P.S. I am offering a NEW giveaway- open through February 14, 2025! Learn all about it at this post:
People pleasing is starting to come into focus for me. Or I should say, my behaviors that are people pleasing or coming into focus.
Considered myself a people pleaser, but it seems to me that behaviors like delivering bad news are where I’m vulnerable. Vulnerable isn’t the right word, more like susceptible to that kind of behavior.
If I’m delivering bad news, I might have a tendency to sugarcoat it, depending on what that bad news is. It seems so easy for some people to be clear and direct about delivering news that will be disappointing to other people, but doesn’t spare them whatever emotion might come up because of that.
There really is something manipulative about trying to control the way people feel because you’re worried about the blowback on yourself. It’s OK for it to be messy, and we can trust that they can handle themselves. Especially if that someone we selected to work with because we vetted them and trusted that they would be able to handle it.